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R.I.P., A.F.H. 
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Post R.I.P., A.F.H.
Looks like alt.fan.heinlein has finally fallen into a terminal coma - just 8 posts this month, with fewer than 10 a month for quite some time, and very little responding material to first-posts.

Time to delete XNews from my system, I guess. The last three groups I had active have had zero posts in a year, plus the tiny trickle in AFH.

Hail and farewell, Usenet...

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Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:43 pm
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Post Re: R.I.P., A.F.H.
Once upon a time, my daily Usenet visit was a major highlight of my day. It is a shame that it couldn't keep up with the rapidly changing cyber-world. It is likely that we'll never have a single "place" where you can discuss/argue/rant over any topic one can think of again. R.I.P., A.F.H. and Usenet.

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Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:24 am
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I really enjoyed Usenet. A clunky formula for information sharing, but a fun one.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:46 pm
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There is such an irony in waxing nostalgic over something so modern as Usenet. Reminiscent of business signs in Los Angeles proclaiming, "A tradition since 1998!"


Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:46 pm
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The Heinlein Forum on Facebook just passed 200 users. Although the Groups interface leaves something to be desired, there is some lively discussion taking place there. The major advantage is that I have to remember to check here, but since I'm already browsing Facebook it's easy to sample discussion there.

We have a number of former a.f.h cobbers and some Quotable Heinlein site folks as well, not to mention a fair chunk of those that post actively here.


Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:53 pm
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Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:03 am
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Gifford:

Hate your new avatar.

Just sayin'.


Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:42 pm
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:19 am
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:21 am
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Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:38 am
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Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:24 pm
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Thanks for the reply, James. I'm not sure where I fit in your spectrum, though. I am old and have read a lot of what's been printed about Heinlein, but I often find things on this forum that are new to me, so I'm sort of a newbie and sort of not. I tried Facebook for a short while, using it for it's described purpose of staying in touch with friends and family. Turns out I'm not that interested in what my grand nephews and nieces are posting and don't really have anything to say to people I went to high school with forty years ago. I read a.f.h for a number of years (I made a few of those posts you saw there this past month) but can't argue that it's going if not yet completely dead. And I was often frustrated with the inane and childish bickering I saw there so I skimmed it rather than followed it closely. I generally enjoy what I see on this forum and find it more than adult enough for me and certainly more sophisticated. But it seems like the number of people actively involved is very small. It probably is enough Heinlein discussion for me, to be honest, but the idea of two hundred fresh voices sounds interesting. I know, though, that quantity does not equal quality, which is why I asked.

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Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:01 pm
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It's an open group so you can read, but not post, without joining.

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Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:32 pm
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After I hit the button I saw that James and "Oscar" had made addditional posts.

To sum up, James's description of the Heinlein Forum on FB is generally accurate. I've enjoyed some of the discussion, but quite a bit is of the "speakeasy" variety; politics and such. This forum is certainly better for deeper discussions of directly RAH-related matters.

For whatever reason there has been a surge of interest, activity and new memebers on the FB Forum recently. I will take it upon myself to make sure that they are aware this forum is available as well.

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Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:50 pm
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The FB discussion is shallow, but there's enough of it to be entertaining. Fills a different niche.


Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:34 pm
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Thanks, guys. Maybe I should take a look, since I don't have to rejoin Facebook to do so. Is this the page we're talking about?

I just gave it a quick scan and must admit the "sequel" to The Cat Who Walks Through Walls made me chuckle.

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Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:28 pm
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Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:37 pm
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Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:43 pm
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Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:41 pm
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AFH was on a considerably higher plane, back a ways. Generally very knowledgable and very focused crowd. Newcomers were welcomed and the plentiful discussion stayed on incredibly high levels. It was the era of discovery and someone had something new to share almost every week - and most of the discussions were not yet stale.

Then came an influx of those whose dictionaries lacked the word "topic" (as in "on-") and proceeded to overwhelm the group with chatroom babble about kitty-cats and exchanging virtual drinks a la Callahan's and generally acting like a bunch of teenagers in a bar - and those of us who tried to get them to shut up or move on basically ended up chased out. The place never recovered, except for kittycats who kept tabs on the virtual drink exchange and moved on to kissies and backrubs.

The following era belonged to His Snideness and cronies and wasn't much fun, either.

The last gasp was a pale shadow of the heyday.

So mote it be.


Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:15 pm
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Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:35 pm
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Well, we do have a fairly large audience for you, 190 members, but it appears to be true that most people are just happy to read the posts and not comment on them.


Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:31 pm
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Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:59 am
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James, everything you say makes sense. I know for me, Heinlein has been such an important author in my life I can't understand why everyone doesn't feel the same way. I suppose it's a form of religious zeal; I'm sure they'd all be Heinlein fans if only they'd give him a try. :)

But the truth is that most people I know have never heard of Heinlein. I have even encountered a very few who have read some Heinlein and didn't like it. It's usually someone who started with his later books so I recommend something earlier like Double Star or the juveniles. Maybe some of them came around but maybe not. Unfortunately, as you say, there aren't those huge numbers of Heinlein fans that it seems there ought to be.

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Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:22 am
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No, it's not that there aren't the fans. I think the number of people who have read some significant number of Heinlein books and might care to discuss them reaches the millions. That's always been part of the faulty thinking - that if we form a group or a site or an org, all we need to do is publicize it and the sheep will flock in.

No, it's the intersection of those people and those who are comfortable and able to discuss online that's small. In the olden days, it took a fairly tech-savvy person with a somewhat rare online connection to reach Usenet and make use of it. Services like AOL and predecessors were closed groups and didn't attract the techiest or sf-iest crowds. The internet in general seems to have an IQ of about 76, so while there are billions of users, the number of them who are interested in Heinlein and capable of/interested in ongoing discussion is very, very small.

I'm out of the Heinlein organizing game. But I suggest that all efforts consider the pool of participants small and elite, and create solutions and programs with that in mind - NOT with the idea that if you do it long enough or loud enough, it will become some much larger group. Hasn't yet. Probably never will. And that's a shame.

But as you say, the number of people who have heard of Heinlein seems to be very small indeed - much smaller than the book sales would indicate. I still wear my Heinlein Hero t-shirt in public from time to time. Since I started wearing it around 2000, I've had a $20 in my pocket, which I planned to hand to the first person who engaged me in significant conversation about old Bob. I still have the 20 - a very few people have asked, a fewer still have said something like "Heinlein, I think I read his book in high school"... but not one person has crossed the low bar and won the prize.


Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:28 pm
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Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:56 pm
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I always enjoyed afh.

Great gobs of threads that any or all could participate in or ignore.

It never required sign-in or password.

It never appeared self-righteous or pretentious.

It never claimed exclusivity.

Posts never had to pass a gatekeeper (it had a "send" button, not a "submit" button)

It came about to escape the AOL nannies.

All the things that characterize this forum.

Most of all.........it was fun, but became uncool after the purge.

oz, who checks in ever year or so to see if anything has changed........


Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:04 pm
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Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:53 pm
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Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:03 pm
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Thanks! I have a vague, vague memory of looking at the Heinlein alt. group once or twice, sometime in the late 90s. My interest in RAH was somewhat fallow at the time. I spent more time at a couple of groups that were of a more, shall we say, salacious nature. Instead, I could have met some of the good people here that many years earlier. As Sir Isaac would say:

Shucks!

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:30 pm
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What killed Usenet for me was when the local providers stopped providing servers with active feeds. I know there are web-based alternatives out there, but I used to read a lot on both SFF Net (non-feed usenet server) and several usenet groups using the Agent tool. I did find some service that had a good feed that included a.f.h but by then traffic had dropped off enough that I wasn't missing anything.


Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:08 am
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Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:36 pm
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