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DanHenderson
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:21 am Posts: 786 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
Someone has (grandiosely? foolishly?) composed a for people new to science fiction. Stranger In A Strange Land is the only Heinlein to make the list; someone suggested Starship Troopers in the comments.
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Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:37 pm |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
Such lists please few, disappoint most, irritate almost everyone and provide no useful guide to the genre. They're often posted as a brainless blog-filler or by someone who was absolutely out of ideas for a column.
Any non-reader who plunges into a list is likely to hit as many books they dislike and consider reinforcing of what they dislike or misunderstand about sf as anything that will light them up. They either need to be very patient and accepting until they find the thread within the genre that appeals to them, or read books based on the considered advice of someone who knows both them and the sweep of sf.
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:52 pm |
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DanHenderson
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:21 am Posts: 786 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
Wouldn't it be nice if we had a version of Pandora for sci-fi?
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Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:45 pm |
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BillPatterson
Heinlein Biographer
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm Posts: 1024
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
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Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:04 pm |
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RobertWFranson
NitroForum Oldster
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:57 pm Posts: 152
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
An idiosyncratic list, to say the least. I think friends and reasonable-length reviews are far better.
_________________ http://www.Troynovant.com/ - recurrent inspiration
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:18 am |
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sakeneko
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 am Posts: 603 Location: Reno, NV
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
I read this list. Half the stuff on it is nothing I would suggest to a new SF reader. The other half is good, but missing too much. How could a basic syllabus for SF be missing.... The Moon is a Harsh Mistress? Dune/any mention of Frank Herbert? Any mention of Arthur C. Clarke? (No "Rendevous with Rama"?) Le Guin's "Left Hand of Darkness"? Any mention of Zenna Henderson/the "People"? Any mention of Manley Wade Wellman, Roger Zelazny, Harlan Ellison, Orson Scott Card (no "Ender's Game"?), Kim Stanley Robinson.... It's probably hubris to be utterly convinced that I could do a *much* better job than this. I'm also convinced that at least half the people here could as well.
_________________ Catherine Jefferson <ctiydspmrz@ergosphere.net> Home Page: http://www.ergosphere.net
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Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:51 pm |
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PeterScott
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:10 am Posts: 2236 Location: Pacific NorthWest
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:04 am |
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jeepojiii
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:42 pm Posts: 128 Location: Northern VA
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
But ... but ... but ... it's the Science Fiction Universite. Didn't y'all take that into account? [/sarcasm]
_________________ OJ III
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:55 am |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:50 am |
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sakeneko
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 am Posts: 603 Location: Reno, NV
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
ROFL, Peter! Did you go to UC Berkeley, too? And take a literature class? From that professor? <VBEG> I'm perfectly capable of putting together a syllabus and class for SF, would love to have the opportunity to teach such a class sometime. Mine would include fantasy as well as science fiction, of course. It would include a book originally written in a language other than English -- "The Neverending Story" by Michael Ende, IMHO the only fantasy writer who equals Tolkien in the 20th century. It would include "Starship Troopers", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", and "Time Enough for Love" at very minimum. It would include "Ender's Game", the Mars Trilogy, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", "Android's Dream" (Scalzi), and probably the first couple of Thieves World and Wild Card collections. It would not include Delaney's Dhalgren or any number of other books that I've never been able to finish, or finished only by forcing myself to slog through the literary muck. It would doubtless expose me as a puerile reader who actually insists upon a decent plot, interesting and sympathetic characters, and entertainment value. <wry grin> No proper university literature department would *ever* let me in the door with it. I expect a number of you could do the same, coming up with different lists of books except (of course) the large quantities of good Heinlein books, which would doubtless be the common factor.
_________________ Catherine Jefferson <ctiydspmrz@ergosphere.net> Home Page: http://www.ergosphere.net
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:08 pm |
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RobertWFranson
NitroForum Oldster
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:57 pm Posts: 152
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
Any science fiction list is bound to be personal, but at least it should show evidence that the list-maker has read a lot of SF and has some insight into how it works and why people like it.
Certainly, general literature suffers from the same anti-quality list-makers as does science fiction; more so, even. Plot is a no-no, especially in anything written after World War One. Characters are deprecated, unless the utter vacuity of plot and theme turns them into helpless whorls of fate. Good style is not to include clarity, although archness and coarseness are plusses.
_________________ http://www.Troynovant.com/ - recurrent inspiration
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:27 pm |
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sakeneko
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 am Posts: 603 Location: Reno, NV
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
I've got a somewhat less jaundiced view of literary fiction than Robert does, apparently, but he's right about entirely too much of it in the 20th century. However, the century that produced so much plotless crap with miserable loosers as alleged protagonists and little to recommend it but snark -- also produced "The Great Gatsby", "The Master and Margarita", "The Grapes of Wrath", "Dr. Zhivago", "100 Years of Solitude", "Eva Luna", and so much other stuff that I think is as good as any literature ever written. And that's without even getting to the "merely good", and while excluding anything that isn't considered literary by most Lit types.
IMHO Theodore Sturgeon was right -- at least 90% of everything is crap. The thing is, time has winnowed out most of the smelly stuff from earlier centuries. When it comes to our lifetimes or periods of time within living memory, we're still wading through it or (hopefully) breaking out the shovels and cleaning up the mess. <wry grin>
_________________ Catherine Jefferson <ctiydspmrz@ergosphere.net> Home Page: http://www.ergosphere.net
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:52 pm |
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RobertWFranson
NitroForum Oldster
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:57 pm Posts: 152
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
Well, sure, there's plenty of great Twentieth Century literature. The difficulty with a lot of these lists is that they're subject to Sturgeon's Law themselves. That is, nine out of their Top Ten are likely to be random / miscellaneous choices as to quality: thus Sturgeon;s List Corollary (as I 'll call it) suggests that nine out of ten lists are worthless. (Percentages are approximate.)
_________________ http://www.Troynovant.com/ - recurrent inspiration
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:51 pm |
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sakeneko
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 am Posts: 603 Location: Reno, NV
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
Couldn't agree more. Mine, of course, is the tenth of those. Or will be if I ever get around to writing it.
_________________ Catherine Jefferson <ctiydspmrz@ergosphere.net> Home Page: http://www.ergosphere.net
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:54 pm |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
Well, my lists go up to eleven.
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:25 pm |
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RobertWFranson
NitroForum Oldster
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:57 pm Posts: 152
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
_________________ http://www.Troynovant.com/ - recurrent inspiration
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:07 pm |
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RobertWFranson
NitroForum Oldster
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:57 pm Posts: 152
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Re: Syllabus and book list for new sci-fi readers
_________________ http://www.Troynovant.com/ - recurrent inspiration
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:10 pm |
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