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Robert A. Heinlein Commentary Blog 
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Post Robert A. Heinlein Commentary Blog
As a platform for longer-form discussion and analysis, I have started a RAH blog. If you are interested in publishing more complex pieces than might be suitable for this Forum or Facebook, I would be happy to add you as an author. I'll just need a Google account to send the invite to. Have a look:


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Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:30 am
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I beg forgiveness in advance and needlessly remind you that you don't have to give a microgram of weight to my opinion... but.

Perhaps my biggest objection to this whole web thingy is that it's been used to diffuse, dilute and dumb down what used to be fairly intelligent, focused discussions. The net more or less started as Usenet, and for all its faults, it did connect communities - some so micro as to be invisible - and fostered very deep, very long, very persistent discussions at least as much as it fostered triviality and flame wars.

Forums are a step down and back, back to the days of individual BBSes - you have to go to a specific location to read, participate or even know the community/discussion is there. The loss of the 'aggregator' Usenet provided is immense and, to me, inexplicable. (No, Google Groups is not one-tenth as useful or functional... mostly because it's used almost 100% for fluffery and it lacks the personalized interface available with newsgroups.) And forums are a slowly dying institution - just too too retro to take seriously - in part because it's so hard for would-be members to find the communities.

That we have devolved from that model to tweets, grunts, farts, blogs and that fingernails-across-the-blackboard-of-your-mind irritation of the link-post is disheartening and inexplicable (to me, at least). I can't think in 140-character bitty-bytes and I loathe into convulsions trying to chase a "discussion" across five different platforms... so, largely, I've given up on online communities.

To bring this around to your post, one of the things I am most bothered by is the replacement of the forum - a truly democratic platform - with the blog, which is not only one of the ugliest words I can think of, but inherently of the anointed few (or one) for the masses. The conversion of every news site in the world to a bloggy thing in which peabrains can rant and spew nonsense is only a glaze on the fundamental flaw of the blog format. Between tweets and blogs and the unfortunate lack of the slightest hurdle to climbing aboard either vehicle, we are absolutely smothered in the rantings of every dork who bought a new smartphone. Both are one-way broadcasts, and frankly, there isn't one broadcaster in 10,000 whose wit, brilliance and insight make their emissions worth the bandwidth. The folks who do have things worth saying and can say them well are not only lost amid the twittering thunder, but have often devolved to that level from either a sense of competition or sheer laziness.

It literally all brings me to tears sometimes - the loss of that wonderful, wonderful world of FIDOnet and then Usenet and the people I knew there and the millions of words I wrote along with members of separate, focused, largely intelligent and always entertaining communities. That no equivalent has arisen from all this glitz and flash and Web 2.0 and orders of magnitude more computing power is just fraggin' weird... or just points up that once it's accessible to morons, everybody starts marching.

To bring this further to point, I can't see how you see a blog as fostering any deeper degree of complexity in discussion. Yes, there are some more advanced formatting capabilities, but most people never bother to use them (and, Cthulhu help us, some do). It is just as possible to post very long, detailed and complex material in this forum... and those posts are placed in a democratic venue where readers can quote, reply and comment at equal length or longer... not in a clearly subsidiary, limited, unformatted "comment" that rarely permits even simple text enhancement and is often limited to a few hundred words. There is no way to carry on anything like a discussion with such unequal tools.

I won't say blogs are the Antichrist (maybe Twitty is) but they are about as far from forums as you can get... and that's a bad, bad thing. IMVHO.

And to bring this all the way down to the immediate point, you might have noticed that, despite decades and many, many attempts and the rotting leftovers almost anywhere you care to look, there is exactly one surviving Heinlein discussion venue... and this is it. There have been hundreds of bloggies and sites and the like and they all remain microscopic and invisible until the proprietor moves on to other things. The sad and sour fact is that, despite how much we all love old Bob, there is just not that much active interest in him or his works... we're it, pretty much. This forum has been in existence for at least ten years and with the diminishment or disappearance of all other venues - the old THS forum, AFH, a few alternate sites - this is the Heinlein nexus. We're it. All of it. So diluting or dividing the discussion is (1) a bad idea that (2) does not improve the situation in any way and is likely (3) an automatic failure at launch.

I don't much care - I stop by maybe once a month and, usually finding the things I dislike* still prevalent, move on. But I'd suggest that one way or the other, all efforts to focus and foster Heinlein discussion be concentrated in one venue. Dividing it up is a bad idea. If this tool isn't doing the job, replace it or extend it... but keep the community in one place.

This has been a public service announcement. We now return you to regular programming.


* In a word, link-posts.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:00 am
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Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:14 pm
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Jim, I think you're being too harsh on Robert, especially to direct commentary equal in volume to the sum of everything you've posted here for several weeks in reaction to his lighting another candle to curse the darkness, just because you don't like how candles flicker. He's not blogging about cupcakes.

There is much I agree with you on, as you know, but first I must point out that there is another Heinlein discussion arena in existence, it's the Facebook group curated by the Rules, and even though I rarely post there, I see it getting something over five times the traffic we do.

The main difference between a blog and a forum is that discussions can only be started by registered authors. Everything else is an isomorphic mapping with fungible appearance. I don't see any reason why Robert's site should attract any less thoughtful and eloquent discussion than ours.

The main problem I have with Facebook is that it has no attention span. Older posts are so hard to find they are effectively nonexistent. Blogs and fora are better than that in equal measure. The post du jour is front and center and the others are hidden behind a welter of "previous" links. But they are, or can be, equally accessible between the two media. No self-organizing group can do better. It takes a librarian and editor to improve on it, and that is the province of the Journal.

But Usenet certainly did not do any better. You want to go back to hunting back for old articles to find they had expired from the local spool? The only reason that people are nostalgic for Usenet - I was on it from 1988 - was that at the time it was populated exclusively by smart people, as was most of the Internet. Although the flame wars were at least as bad due to the concentration of Asperger's. Its inhabitants mourned its passing when AOL gave access to it in, what, 1993? Although the mourners were also the ones who lamented before 1993 that Usenet became less intelligent every September when new frosh gained access. Hence the label of the post-AOL era as the "."

Both fora and blogs are not restricted to 140 characters - res ipsa loquitur - and I share that loathing of Twitter. You can wax encyclopedic here (and often have). So some people (vide supra) choose to make short posts. T'was ever thus on Usenet also (c.f. "Me too"). The medium is not imposing that limitation. And if my screeds are anything to go by, not encouraging it either.

I wish there was a common global water cooler to gather around instead of this feeling of thousands of isolated sippy cups. If things felt different when Usenet was around, that's not because it was such a global community but - just as the Big Bang didn't expand in space, but expanded space itself - because the larger community didn't exist yet. I bet that Usenet is as crowded as it ever was. More people have come to the Internet party, and they are hanging out at different bars. But as appealing for ease of use as the idea of a single massive community is, that's also described by terms like 'monolithic' and 'centralized', and hey, the world just isn't going in that direction. Probably just as well. I suspect you're like me - trying to figure out how the heck young'uns decide where to post anything and not understanding the answer.

So the situation is neither simple nor ideal. But Robert has created a new altar for Heinlein fans to genuflect at, and that is never a bad thing, not for him, not for us, and not for Heinlein. Thank you, Robert.


Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:27 pm
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James, holmesiv and Peter: Thanks for the feedback. Briefly, what I'm trying to do is perhaps best described as amateur Journal--I have enjoyed the Facebook page but Peter has described its limitations well. These first few posts are just to have some content for people to see if they stop by.

I agree "blog" is a somewhat repellent word ;). What I would like to publish are longer, thoughtful pieces abut RAH, especially the biography. Volume II will come out in (I hope) a few months and there will be a lot to analyze and think about.

Meanwhile, this forum is certainly worthwhile, useful and fun, but I think blog posts get found by searches and internal posts to the forum don't. At least, when I google Heinlein topics I very rarely see posts from here in the first few pages. So I'm hoping that interested people can find something they want to read and discuss. I would be happy to cross-post the main articles here, in fact that's a fine idea. I'll also get a link to the forum up.

Again, anyone who would like author privileges is welcome.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:34 pm
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First, Robert, understand that none of this is personal; please take away no offense from my objections.

But I'll maintain that dividing a tiny, growth-resistant community is a bad idea. I've been observing it from something like a command seat for a long, long time... and there is not the head count nor total interest to support more than one community focal point, not without drawing down and damaging the others. The battles between THS, squatting in its manger, and everyone else, for a decade, did irreparable harm to the community. With that dark age thankfully behind, we should be focused on cohesion and growth.

As for FarceBook, even when run by those as dogged and dedicated as Da Rules, the platform and the user base represent everything about the devolution of the net community. Go count all those posts, Peter, and come back with average word count... if it's over 100, I will double that $10 I owe you on the gold bet. If it's under 50, I get to keep my $10. FB is already souring and I predict (no, I won't bet another tanner) that by this time next year it will be as moribund as MySpace, if not GeoCities.

Not that the traditional web, here, is on any pinnacle any more, but at least it's an open platform and we can run this hoary old forumware and not whatever Zuckerbergians dictate.

All your other points are good and I can't disagree... but as the guy who wore out holding up flickering candles and keeping them lit, year after year, I maintain my right to cuss the darkness a little.


Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:11 am
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Oh, I wasn't defending Facebook by any means, only pointing out that it violated your "last forum standing" claim. I'll join you on all the disparagements but sit on the fence about longevity predictions.

You see Robert's blog as taking a slice out of the Heinlein community pie. I see it as adding another pie. That's our difference.


Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:42 pm
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Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:21 pm
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Post Re: Robert A. Heinlein Commentary Blog
Just googling around, I found this:
http://www.nndb.com/people/710/000023641/
Wouldn't have posted anything about it, except that the short bio section gave a listing for RAH's supposed sexual orientation (straight).
Don't know why whoever put that up thought that was important, but I would like to know why they thought that. What proof?

Listing of the works also stopped at Podkayne.

Also found a site owned by James, not updated since 2004.


Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:28 pm
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Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:39 am
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The Facebook group is not available to me since I have no interest in becoming a member, again. I tried Facebook for a short time and found it to be a waste and an annoyance.

As for the blog, I don't have a problem with it in principle. I looked at it and there's not much there yet, but it's only a few days old. It does not seem to offer any advantages over this forum but, unlike James, I don't see any harm in having another area for Heinlein on the web. People will use it or they won't. I can't see it causing anyone who is currently using this forum to stop.

I did like the pictures.

That's my two cents.

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:32 am
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Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:24 am
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I really haven't understood why Robert felt the need to start his own blog on the subject. His many insightful comments have always been welcome here and his section on 'Connections' in his blog could have started a very useful thread[1]. From my experience, I doubt seriously that his complaint of search engines not showing the Forum would, would probably apply to his blog as well. How many people will find his blog through search engines? This Forum provides a built-in-readership of 179 members and uncounted number of visitors, most of which probably took a look at his blog, but, may or may not ever return to it.

As for his other contributors, they are certainly welcome to register here, and make a contribution to any of the Fora and/or threads. At least one of them, to my knowledge, is already a member.

If any of them, or anyone else, for that matter, has tried to register and not been confirmed, drop me a note at maikosht@windstream.net letting me know about your difficulty and I make sure that you are confirmed on the next attempt[2].

[1]There has already been a discussion on Lefevre See: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=435&start=10

[2] I have to make a subjective guess as to whether or not a registration attempt is from a spammer. Most of these are obvious, but some are more difficult to determine. I try to balance the side of prevention versus acceptance, and some have gotten past and were deleted as soon as they showed their agenda. It is possible that some have been refused who should have been confirmed. If so, I apologize.


Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:34 am
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Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:13 am
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My apologies. I missed reading it here.

David


Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:29 am
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Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:11 pm
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Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:52 pm
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Jim, you do love to tilt at windmills. Does the Heinlein community have people who want to make short, low-content, little intellect required postings about Heinlein? Based on the Facebook activity, yes. How good a job are we doing of attracting the ones who want to write at length? Hmm. Could be better. Or maybe there just aren't more people out there who want to write at length on this topic any more. But if there are, then they gotta find us somehow, and that becomes more likely with Robert's blog, not less. That'll attract search engines and his links back to us will raise our page rank score, and if those people find his site before us and a forum is what they want, then his blog will make it easier for them to find us. That's how finding content on the interwebs works. If the blog is only suited to short content posters then you don't care if they don't come here anyway. What we need to do to get the visitors you want is raise our visibility, and he's just done that.

The total size of the active Heinlein fan base is... not large. We don't need to pick at each other's honest attempts to help. THS did that prior to THC, and that's the sort of factionalization that does hurt, because they ignored us except for the times they ripped us publicly. Even now there are people who pretend that the only thing happening that weekend was a party in someone's hotel room. This is nothing like that.


Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:06 pm
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Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:10 pm
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Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:21 pm
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despite the fact, relative to those outside this group, i'm extremely well versed about RAH and his writings, in this forum i feel like a neophyte- imagine what a true new comer to Heinlein would feel here ? excited to be here but absolutely speechless- when the Heinlein "experts" (read biographers, literary experts, professors, and so on) amongst us speak, well it's a tough gig to add anything new or of relevance- is this even an appropriate site for the casual RAH fan ? not really- i don't think we'd enjoy them any more than they'd enjoy us

but i do see these alternative RAH sites/blogs/ you name it as gateways- they winnow the RAH fan base for those who may possess a deep and real Heinlein interest- the existence of these RAH sub-sets provides us the opportunity to cast a wide net- our link there provides a sign post for those who may desire more than RAH pablum - i guess i see these alt sites as emissaries who can help direct kindred souls our way

but don't expect a flood- it seems there's fewer readers- those who read sci-fi and fantasy fill a narrow niche of this population- those reading an author who died 30 years ago fill a tinier bit yet- but without an influx of new blood we aren't we wholly a "last man standing" kind of group?

i'm wondering what we're doing to give this forum relevance to RAH fans who don't quite qualify as "experts"? looking at our membership list versus those who are truly active in the forum- it shows interest by a couple hundred worldwide but only a dozen or so voices are heard with any regularity- how do we get those we do attract to join in our discussions? i'm not suggesting a dumbing down for the masses or a letting in of the barbarians :) but what do we do to both attract newcomers and engage them ?

as usual i'm long on questions but short on answers

we may need to re-examine our goals and decide if this forum will be but a sanctuary for the last standing RAH admirers and scholars- do we want more than that?

Nick

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Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:13 pm
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Dan, I enjoy each and every post of yours and you have made some truly touching and valuable ones. I don't want anything to discourage you from posting here more and I will personally stomp on anyone who gets self-righteous on your ass.


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Peter beat me to it. Dan, both you and Nick are among those who I meant when I was talking about folks who are hesitant to speak up but often contribute gems when you do.

After all these years, Bob H. is still fertile and largely unexplored ground. Anyone who's got a little savvy and interest can contribute, and contribute well, to the pool of new insights.


Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:06 am
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Thank you both! That's very kind of you to say.

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:33 am
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OMG .

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Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:02 am
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satirically noted- the link was kewl :) but, most importantly, on point ! thinking that the younger you are, the more prone you are to being socially "connected" but disconnected with face to face humanity- even we "old timers" need beware less we too fall prey and lose that unique/quirky thing called "I" as we are absorbed into the "collective" KEWL


Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:18 am
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Besides the interesting parallelism of thought (nice to know I'm not quite as isolated and nutty as Tesla), I think it's an excellent example of how some things divide at a greater rate than they multiply. You end up with ten channels of communication, each containing less than one-tenth the prior flow. In some (many? most?) cases, MUCH less.


Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:36 am
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I read an account of a lawyer who beat the pants off his opponents during a complex and fractious M&A. He noticed that during meetings the numerous lawyers for the other side were all multitasking on their Blackberries. He was the only one who paid complete attention. They never figured out how come he won.


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Well, the whole distraction thing is yet another kettle of worms. Besides the immediate issues (you aren't seeing either the semi changing lanes, the cab being driven by an alien or the business/legal type maneuvering circles around you) it probably means you aren't paying 100% attention, in total, to ANYTHING. The multiply-until-overly-divided factor again.


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Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:19 pm
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lol holmes think you can attribute that quote to dan :) i envisioned friday as raven haired

and Jim you're preaching to the choir about a distracted world - too many are living a skin deep life full only of themselves and their next post- but then someone will surprise you :) they are the ones who make this life interesting and fulfilling- as RAH noted, they come in all sizes, colors, genders, and species- you just have to keep an eye open for em


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for today's youth.


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Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:53 pm
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I find it increasingly difficult to distinguish between:

" ...writing at length..."

and pretentious babbling.l


Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:57 am
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Update--currently averaging three visitors per day, but posting has been intermittent.

I think Jim's skepticism about the venture has been proved approximately 93% correct... :o

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Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:54 pm
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It's a tough row to hoe for any of us. My commiserations. The choice seems to be between the wasteland of insufficient eyeballs and the ADHD pachinko parlor of modern social media.


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I haven't been on this forum very long and I am a little disappointed by the lack of regular posts, BUT...

When I first found the forum I read durned near every thread and was enthralled by it for several days. Reading other peoples opinions of RAH's works reminded me of how much I have loved them and depended on them for the majority of my adult life. The entire thread(s) about the Centennial and how in unfolded had me chuckling in sympathy over the events I have had to put on and gave me utter appreciation of the efforts involved, not to mention a large bit of chagrin that I didn't even know it was going on or I would have gladly attended.

I have checked this forum nearly every day to see if there are any new posts, and look forward to new conversations.

IMHO, the effort is not in vain. If nothing else it is an incredible archive, and one that can be added to.


Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:30 pm
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Heinlein Nexus
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:10 am
Posts: 2236
Location: Pacific NorthWest
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Post Re: Robert A. Heinlein Commentary Blog
Yeah, it's a shame that there are so few postings here. On the other hand, the easy availability and browsing of all postings since the beginning of time surpasses the ephemeral memory of the so-called "modern" social media portals.


Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:47 pm
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 am
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Location: Reno, NV
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Post Re: Robert A. Heinlein Commentary Blog
Agree 100%, Peter. It also has other advantages -- one being that you've got a lot more disclosure about who can read your posts (anybody) and very little chance that somebody will use a post of yours without your consent as a means to advertise a product. (as Facebook can and now does). :/

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Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:58 am
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