Gas station and bar....no funny ideas about no drinking and driving back then
https://heinleinsociety.org/thsnexus/ |
|
| Leslyn in 1930 https://heinleinsociety.org/thsnexus/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=349 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Leslyn in 1930 |
Leslyn MacDonald doesn't show up in the indexes to the 1930 census as hosted by ancestry.com or heritagequest.com, so I've never found her listed in the censuses until now. As of 4 Apr 1930, she was living in the household of Chester (age 25) and Marion (age 24) Beard, and their kids Alice (4-1/2), and William (3-1/2). Leslyn's (age 25) status in the household was listed as "cousin". They lived at 6205 Oakcrest Way (if you enter 6204 Oak Crest Way, Los Angeles CA into Google Maps, you can get a "street view" of the house -- tax assessor says it was built in 1924. Ignore the part of the picture that says "6204 Oak Crest" -- the label is wrong, and that house is across the street. Leslyn lived in the yellow 1311 sq ft house that you are looking at.) Census says that her occupation was teacher at a public school. I believe Marion was the mother of Colin Hubbard, who provided much information to Robert James for his article "Regarding Leslyn". Is Robert James still in the Heinlein Business? The last few times I've emailed him I got no response. |
|
| Author: | JamesGifford [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
And while on the subject of Leslyn, is a letter she had published in Nebula (a British mag) in 1957, with a few biographical tidbits. |
|
| Author: | JamesGifford [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Absolutely fascinating that she makes no reference to either of her more famous names or their connections. (For those not up on the details, Leslyn Macdonald Heinlein remarried ca. 1953 to a Jules Moccabee and lived out her life in their [restaurant? general store? inn?] in Stockton, California. She never lost her vituperation for RAH.) Fabulous find, Bill. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | RobertJames [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Marion Beard was not Colin's mother; she was one of Leslyn's best friends. Keith Hubbard was Colin's mother, who was Leslyn's sister. Great find on the 1930 census -- I had never heard her claim to be a public school teacher. She probably didn't do it for very long, since she was at Columbia from 1930-1932. Between that, the time at Pasadena Playhouse, and the college degrees, it isn't hard to see why RAH fell for her. Until her alcoholism and attendant mental issues arose, she was every bit as much a "Heinlein Woman" as Ginny ever was. Different fields, of course. Robert |
|
| Author: | JamesGifford [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
RJ, outstanding to see you here. Note that the main web site is a live-authoring platform. There's a place to write and post into the general mix "articles" of any length and content - more permanent and formal than here in the forum, and less hassle than on static sites where someone else has to turn your ms into a web page. |
|
| Author: | RobertJames [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Good to "see" you too, Jim. I love what you're doing here. Keep up the great work! Robert |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | RobertJames [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Iirc, the Beards took in the kids briefly after Keith's death. As for all the other info you've found, pass it along to my email address and I'll forward to Colin. Mr. Mullins, if I haven't said it before, you're amazing in your ability to dig up all this stuff! Robert |
|
| Author: | BillPatterson [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillPatterson [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | RobertJames [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Gas station and bar....no funny ideas about no drinking and driving back then
|
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillPatterson [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Arrgh! You and Robert have GOT to get together and get these things written up for the Journal. I bet the watercress canape was a cream-cheese spread. What we now know as California cuisine was just getting started in the 1930's. (nowadays it would be more likely to be a variation of pesto) ISTR this is also about the time Erma Rombauer was putting together the first version of The Joy of Cooking (but she was very midwestern) |
|
| Author: | BillPatterson [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Yo, Bill. I just put this material (crediting you) into an extended footnote in the Biography. It's a good thing (words I never thought Id see coming out of my fingers...) that the copyedit is happening now. thanks very much! |
|
| Author: | PeterScott [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Wait a minute. Mrs. R.A. Heinlein??? |
|
| Author: | BillPatterson [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | JamesGifford [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
The history of "Mrs." is one of the most peculiar stories in English and sociology. |
|
| Author: | PeterScott [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Oops... I was thrown by the fact that apparently the same magazine referred to her two different ways. But maybe "volume" here spans multiple issues. |
|
| Author: | audrey [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Mrs. Leslyn Heinlein would have been incorrect. In fact if she had used that even as a divorced woman it would have implied that she was openly admitting fault in the divorce. (per Emily Post in 1935) How times have changed - last month a co-worker of mine was married, and after some thought she decided to take her husband's last name as her own. At least part of that decision was made based on the very long length a hyphenated version of both names would be. She said her husband was very surprised and touched that she would do such a thing! |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillPatterson [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
is the house that Leslyn lived in in 1968 (1974 S Argonaut, Stockton, CA - midway between Irene and Sanchez on the far side of the street). The tavern/gas station that Jules owned and operated was at 1735 Marengo. I think this lot (now empty) was at the SE corner of Charter (name changes to Marengo further west) and Fresno. From the house, go N to Charter, and SW to Fresno. This info comes from City Directories scanned at Ancestry.com. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
And apparently Leslyn used to sing in public: |
|
| Author: | holmesiv [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | RobertJames [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Bill M., you're amazing! The singing would have been when Leslyn was about graduation age, or thereabouts, from high school -- 18 or 19, I forget. Thank you for the great little tidbits. R. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Leslyn's birth . |
|
| Author: | thinker [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
I've read that RAH and Leslyn had an open marriage. Most recently I read this in the Robert James bio on Leslyn in the Heinlein Journals. Does anyone have first hand knowledge this is correct? And what about during his marriage to Ginny? Somehow I don't think she would agree to that kind of lifestyle. |
|
| Author: | MichaelCassutt [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | thinker [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Thank you. Are the letters you're referring to in the archives? |
|
| Author: | MichaelCassutt [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | thinker [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Thank you muchly. I enjoyed reading your accounting of your contacts and meetings with RAH and Ginny. Do you have anything else documenting your relations with RAH that you can share? Can you recommend any other available accountings from people who knew him or Ginny personally? I don't mean interviews because they are not normal day to day contact. Allen Steele's "At the feet of the Master" for example, but preferably with more personal information about RAH and Ginny. Cheers? |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | MichaelCassutt [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | thinker [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
I appreciate the responses from both of you. I realize, since so much time has passed that there isn't any sure way to know. I'm going to read the letters as soon as I can find out why the archives won't take my credit cards. I've bought stuff successfully 4 times before and now the transactions fail when I attempt payment. If I had Geo's email address I might could hurry this process along. I don't know how often he looks at the archives email. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | thinker [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | thinker [ Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | thinker [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | MichaelCassutt [ Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | JamesGifford [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
I don't know if I'm more fascinated that newspapers included such minute social news in those days, or that months then had 38 days. (Sorry, Bill, just needling you. Very good stuff. And I am amazed that such small social events got line listings in any modern era...) |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | DanHenderson [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | JamesGifford [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | DanHenderson [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Okay, I'll stay. |
|
| Author: | JamesGifford [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
We all make typos - or typoes, or tighpoes, or what have you. It's hard to resist poking at one that makes silly sense in context. No diss intended. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | JusTin [ Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
I'm not going anywhere. That was just banter that would have come across much better in person, verbally. They caught me out on two mis-transcriptions (TWO!!) which, in a more just world, would have slid by unnoticed. Next time, I'll send stuff to Jim and Dan in advance to proofread, and then post it here. (NOTE: not really, more banter . . . ) |
|
| Author: | jeepojiii [ Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | BillMullins [ Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
From a recent Reddit thread on "intellectual" jokes: It's hard to explain puns to kleptomaniacs because they always take things literally. |
|
| Author: | DanHenderson [ Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
I loved that thread! Also the one that was touted as Isaac Asimov's favorite pun, about the wealthy rancher who gave his sons a ranch of their own and they came to him for advice on what to name it. He suggested Focal Point, because that's where the sun's rays meet. Think about it. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
From the Santa Ana (CA) Register, May 14 1935 p 9 SPEAKER TELLS OF SENATE AND ASSEMBLY BILLS LAGUNA BEACH, May 14 – "Fascist Bills in Sacramento" was the subject of an address delivered recently at the Park avenue school building by Mrs. R. A. Heinlein, of Los Angeles, formerly a resident of Laguna. The address was given under the auspices of the Laguna Beach Epic club, William R. Tattersfield, club president, presiding. The speaker was introduced by James T. Garvin, chairman of the program committee. Mrs. Heinlein enumerated a number of Senate and Assembly bills which, she said, may be employed in muzzling discussion of political questions or public issues. She invited particular attention to what she termed the Anti-Pacifist bill and to a measure under which any school board may deny the use of school buildings for the public discussion of "highly controversial" issues. The speaker also mentioned a bill under which libel suits are taken out of the hands of juries, the judge being the sole arbiter of facts and law in the premises. Mrs. Heinlein urged that all public spirited citizens, regardless of political affiliations, make it a personal matter to investigate and acquaint themselves with these proposed measures, and then communicate their views to the state senators and assemblymen representing their respective districts. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
An interesting on Leslyn. |
|
| Author: | JusTin [ Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
Is there really evidence of RAH as a "wife-swapper"? I don't remember reading details of that. Hints, maybe. Or I'm dense. |
|
| Author: | BillMullins [ Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
The most explicit discussion I've seen is the letters by Grace Sang reprinted in the appendix of vol 2 of Patterson's biography. It gives the strong impression that Robert enjoyed an open marriage and that Leslyn wasn't completely happy with the situation, but figured fair is fair, and when she tried to do likewise, Robert interfered with her liaisons. They also seem to indicate that Ginny was throwing herself at Robert while he and Leslyn were still married, and that this was a contribution to their divorce. |
|
| Author: | JusTin [ Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Author: | DanHenderson [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leslyn in 1930 |
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 8 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|