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Heinlein movie? 
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Original thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1547

On short, the thought occurred to me that if Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged could be crowdfunded into production, then why not a Heinlein book?

A few questions to invite comment:

Which book? Some listed have been Friday, Job, and Time Enough for Love.

If project reaches that point, would the Heinlein Society be willing to consider giving a green light?

Can enough interest be generated in order to fund it?

I'm sure there are other questions, but these are the main ones that occur to me at the moment.


Fri May 02, 2014 12:08 pm
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You've got to have the producing and directing talent not only lined up, but driving the crowdsourcing effort to begin with. You also need to have the screenwriter on board with an idea ready to jump out of the gate. The choice of book will be almost totally dictated by whoever the screenwriter and producer are and what their favorite is


Sat May 03, 2014 1:10 pm
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PeterScott, what I'm getting from your comment is basically, "Unless someone else does it, it won't happen."

Since I am asking the questions in order to gauge interest I should count you as not interested?


Sat May 03, 2014 4:02 pm
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I'd love to see a good film made of either "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" (my personal favorite among Heinlein books), "Time Enough for Love" (probably Heinlein's best book), or any of several others. You'd need a top-flight screen writer who also knows and loves Heinlein's work to do a decent job, though, especially with the first two books. You'd need somebody who knows how to direct, knows how to do CGI enhancement (you'll need some special effects for most Heinlein books) and knows how to produce and market a movie.

I think that Peter is right that you've got to have resources lined up that can do all of the critical parts of production before people will sign up and donate. The problem isn't that I wouldn't be interested, or most of the fellow Heinlein nuts wouldn't be interested. It's that I know what I don't know when it comes to filming a movie, and i don't know how to do any part of it. I also don't know anybody on this board who does, although one of them might surprise me. :-) So if I'm going to contribute financially to such an effort, I need to see somebody who does know heading it up and with a team that can cover the critical parts of the task.

If you've got or can pull together the cinema know-how to handle this, I'm all ears. :-)

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Sat May 03, 2014 4:54 pm
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Sat May 03, 2014 7:03 pm
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Yes, there is an actual screenplay for MIAHM out there, and I believe Mike wrote it? It was quite decent, IIRC.

Get an experienced producer on board and they may line up everyone else. That is of course somewhat like saying, "Get yourself to LEO and reaching the Moon is easy."


Sat May 03, 2014 7:35 pm
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I didn't take it negatively, I just pointed out the same thing that Peter did about his comment.

Projects like this happen one of two ways: from the top down (studio, producer, A-list whomever wants it made) or the bottom up. Peter's answer was that if someone on top wants it made, the rest will follow. I agree, but it wasn't my question. My question was is there enough bottom pressure (fans, here, etc.) to create the project and get the thing made, which is why I specifically cited the Atlas Shrugged project.

The answers that I have so far are pretty much a no. There is interest in it being made, and if the ball is rolling people are interested, but there isn't enough interest to GET it rolling. In other words, not enough pressure to break the inertia.

I cite this conversation as an example. The conversation isn't about the project, it is about the conversation about the project. Net inertia toward getting things done: none.

Not at all unusual. This is where most ideas go. That isn't good or bad, it's just what happens more often than not.


Sat May 03, 2014 8:27 pm
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Atlas Shrugged was not crowd funded from the bottom up. See http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/a ... ter-633504 . The fundraising was sourced by the producers. You are talking about fans donating money in the hope that some currently unidentified producers will show up to use it. I know of no case where that has happened.


Sat May 03, 2014 9:58 pm
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Peter, true and you have a good point about Atlas Shrugged's fundraising. I was incorrectly under the impression that the kickstarter campaign was significantly larger.

I have close friends that are Producers, two of whom are IMDB listed and in demand in the PacNW, one of whom is huge science fiction fan. I know several scriptwriters, etc. and the list goes on. People on the production end can be story and project pitched, or could lead me to people who would be better suited.

If I were to pitch a Heinlein idea to them the first question I would be asked is, "How would the fans react to it and do they want it to happen?" I think this is reasonable since I am a fan myself and I would not want material I love to be bastardized, such as happened with Starship Troopers.

I thought it was a reasonable thing to ask here, which is a specific Heinlein mega-fan place. If the people such as yourself who went so far as to organize the Centennial would be interested in seeing such a project happen, then that would be an indication that the larger body of fans would be. A skewed statistical sample perhaps, but still a good indicator.

Part of my original thought was that it would be cool to have Heinlein lovers and fans involved from the get-go to provide the upward pressure from the bottom that I referred to.

All of which is far more thought than I put into my original post which was basically a 'here is an idea, let's run it up the flag-pole' kind of thing.

I am disheartened by the immediate response being about money, although I probably asked for that response by mentioning crowdsourcing. I don't operate on the theory that the money has to come first. I have always thought that the idea comes first, the people to make it happen come second and the money comes third in order of project creation. This method has served me well, and successfully.

Perhaps I am incorrect (I certainly have been before), but if my memory of Peter's account of the Centennial was much the same. The idea occurred, he decided to make it happen, talked to people, it got greenlighted, money was put into it, etc. Perhaps Peter can correct me on this.

Of course like the Centennial, a project like a movie would take a LOT of time, effort, heartbreak, sweat, blood, and tears to get it moving.

I suppose that a motivation for posting in the first place may be that I am currently in between pet projects and I tend to tackle big ones that I am passionate about. Next year I have my big walk, but until then I don't have much to do but the intellectual drudgery of prepping to go back to school to get my teaching certification. The thought has been in the back of my mind since my original post about whether I want to push against this particular wall and see if it can be moved, as well as how I would go about doing it.

I haven't answered my own original questions yet, which I will do in a later post since this one is getting a little long. :)


Sun May 04, 2014 12:21 am
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If you know a producer or famous director who could pull this off and who wants to make a Heinlein film, then by all means let's hear from them. If the original posting in this thread had been, "Hi, I'm the producer of [three movies with budgets over $25 million], I really want to make a movie of TEFL and I have a director with a great take on the idea, but no studio will take us on, do you think we could crowdfund it?" the response would have been different. Way different.

The centennial was not the same situation: I and the other people I immediately talked to were the producers. Bill had already produced a con. Plus, we didn't need donations, only registrations. Nevertheless, the convention would still not have happened had we not had the critical mass of KaCSFFS - again, experienced con producers who wanted to make it happen. And who didn't have up-front expenses to foot.

Movies get created by talented, experienced professionals with a passion for an idea that they just have to see on the screen. When at least the key producer or director in that set of people is on stage, then they can explore whatever means of fundraising it takes to get the job done. Doing it the other way around is trying to erect a building by putting the roof on first: you're simply going to get flattened by reality. People who have never made a movie before don't create feature films.

It's terrific that you know people in the industry, but unless they catch the dream and decide this is their next project you are tilting at a windmill of juggernaut proportions. I saw how Verhoeven shopped Troopers around: at a con I saw a demo reel he made of a bug CGI scene and then he made the case to the camera of how he wanted to make this movie. He went to the studios giving them copies of the reel until one said yes. That's how it's done. If your contacts won't consider producing a Heinlein movie until they see the cash to make it, they're not motivated enough. And when they are motivated, it'll be by a particular book that they've already been captivated by.

I'm happy to sit here discussing movie fantasies all day, but not to helm an effort guaranteed to fail and cause stress and heartache because it's cart-before-horse. Now, if you want to start a thread on, "What unique twist can you put on a Heinlein story that would make it a great movie pitch?" why, that would be a fantastic thing to discuss.


Sun May 04, 2014 5:39 am
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A couple of things, since I've been mentioned....

I had nothing to do with the several screenplay adaptations of MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS. The one floating around in various forms is likely done by Tim Minear, a talented TV writer who worked on BUFFY, among many others. There was an earlier version written by Ted Elliott & Terry Rossio, fairly well known for PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN and also credited on THE PUPPET MASTERS. They are huge Heinlein fans. If Minear and Elliott & Rossio couldn't get MOON made, I don't know who could.

Going back to the original post, the FIRST question to be asked is... what RIGHTS are available? MOON, STAR BEAST, TUNNEL IN THE SKY, STRANGER, DOOR INTO SUMMER and others are owned by or under option to various parties.

The larger question is which Heinlein properties -- if any -- are worthy of or would benefit from film or TV adaptation. STRANGER? That window closed forty years ago. TROOPERS? Badly done, not a plausible candidate for re-make any time soon. DOUBLE STAR? Would look and feel like MOON OVER PARADOR or any of the classic PRISONER OF ZENDAS. FRIDAY, JOB, CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS, TO SAIL BEYOND THE SUNSET.... er, no. More detailed critique available upon request, but the bottom line is still... no. UNPLEASANT PROFESSION OF JONATHAN HOAG is on its way, from Alex Proyas (DARK CITY).

There are some solid candidates in the Heinlein juveniles, subject to rights availability.

And there is something cool -- says the man who tried to get "Man Who Sold the Moon" done years ago with Joe Dante as director, as a "period piece" -- about a Future History TV series that would take pieces of MAN WHO SOLD, GREEN HILLS, REVOLT IN 2100, TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE etc., break them into chunks and re-do them. But even some of THOSE stories are tied up by people who have interesting plans for them.

So... kickstarter? Wasting your time. Sorry.

MD


Sun May 04, 2014 7:59 pm
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Hi Mike. Sorry about the brain fart. You raise an interesting point about "period pieces." If RED ALERT can be reshot as a b/w live TV special in 2000, if we can have Art Deco pieces like THE ROCKETEER, IRON SKY, and SKY CAPTAIN AND THE WORLD OF TOMORROW, is there a place for shooting something like THE ROLLING STONES in its original milieu?

It sucks that a movie can skate close enough to the plot of a story to spoil its chances of being made without being close enough to infringe. ROCKET SHIP GALILEO can't get made because of IRON SKY.


Mon May 05, 2014 5:14 am
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Mon May 05, 2014 7:25 am
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Very good point, Bill. I recall reading something just like that around the time the first Star Trek movie came out. (This predates the web, so don't expect me to remember enough to find a citation.) Someone asked the director (I believe) about how he would consider the reaction of fans of the TV show. His response was roughly, "No one saw the TV show." Meaning, the fan base for the TV show was insignificant compared to the total market base for the movie. Now consider that at the time, the fan base for Star Trek was the most effective in history.


Mon May 05, 2014 7:09 pm
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(I posted this into a different thread by accident first time, sorry, this is the thread I originally meant to post to)

I would like to see a Time Enough for Love trilogy combined with Methuselah's Children.

The first film in the series is the events of Methuselah's Children, ending at the same time as the book: when Lazarus Long and the others return to earth.

The second film in the series would be the longest of the 3. Perhaps, 200+ minutes long, beginning with the start of Time Enough for Love with Lazarus Long now an ancient man wishing for death, which I feel would contrast well with his personality and appearance in the first film. After the first section, it would contain Lazarus telling Ira the stories of The Tale of the Man Who Was Too Lazy to Fail, The Tale of the Twins Who Weren't, and ends with The Tale of the Adopted Daughter.

The third and final film would contain the Boondock and Da Capo sections, mainly Lazarus travelling back to 1916 and eventually being mortally wounded in france. As for the ending: I am unsure whether Lazarus should die or not. [url="http://www.heinleinsociety.org/2013/02/faq-frequently-asked-questions-about-robert-a-heinlein-his-works/"]I have read that the original assumption that was taken from the book was that Lazarus died on the Western Front[/url], but Number of the Beast removed that.

I would prefer it if Lazarus did die at the end of the film. It would make the ending more powerful in my opinion. The bit with Lazarus lying in the middle of a war looking at the sky as he dies was beautiful, and I think the image conjured would look perfect on a screen. His death would remove the possibility of a Number of the Beast film, but I personally don't think Number of the Beast would translate well into a film.

I think good names for the films would be: 1. Methuselah's Children, 2. Time Enough for Love, and 3. Da Capo. And perhaps the trilogy could be called the Lazarus Long Trilogy

If I ever win the lottery or become incredibly rich from another source, I would make it happen.


Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:49 am
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Here here.


Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:49 pm
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I'd certainly go see those movies. And I'm *much* more fond of reading than watching movies most of the time.

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Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:13 pm
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That looks like it would work for both fans and mass appeal. Nice work.


Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:24 am
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I actually think much of his work would be better suited to big budget mini series rather than film but the triple bill above works for me.


Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:09 pm
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