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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Leslyn in 1930
Leslyn MacDonald doesn't show up in the indexes to the 1930 census as hosted by ancestry.com or heritagequest.com, so I've never found her listed in the censuses until now.
As of 4 Apr 1930, she was living in the household of Chester (age 25) and Marion (age 24) Beard, and their kids Alice (4-1/2), and William (3-1/2). Leslyn's (age 25) status in the household was listed as "cousin". They lived at 6205 Oakcrest Way (if you enter 6204 Oak Crest Way, Los Angeles CA into Google Maps, you can get a "street view" of the house -- tax assessor says it was built in 1924. Ignore the part of the picture that says "6204 Oak Crest" -- the label is wrong, and that house is across the street. Leslyn lived in the yellow 1311 sq ft house that you are looking at.)
Census says that her occupation was teacher at a public school.
I believe Marion was the mother of Colin Hubbard, who provided much information to Robert James for his article "Regarding Leslyn".
Is Robert James still in the Heinlein Business? The last few times I've emailed him I got no response.
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Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:02 am |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:47 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
And while on the subject of Leslyn, is a letter she had published in Nebula (a British mag) in 1957, with a few biographical tidbits.
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:33 pm |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Absolutely fascinating that she makes no reference to either of her more famous names or their connections.
(For those not up on the details, Leslyn Macdonald Heinlein remarried ca. 1953 to a Jules Moccabee and lived out her life in their [restaurant? general store? inn?] in Stockton, California. She never lost her vituperation for RAH.)
Fabulous find, Bill.
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:59 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:30 pm |
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RobertJames
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 am Posts: 375
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Marion Beard was not Colin's mother; she was one of Leslyn's best friends.
Keith Hubbard was Colin's mother, who was Leslyn's sister.
Great find on the 1930 census -- I had never heard her claim to be a public school teacher. She probably didn't do it for very long, since she was at Columbia from 1930-1932. Between that, the time at Pasadena Playhouse, and the college degrees, it isn't hard to see why RAH fell for her. Until her alcoholism and attendant mental issues arose, she was every bit as much a "Heinlein Woman" as Ginny ever was.
Different fields, of course.
Robert
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Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:12 am |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
RJ, outstanding to see you here.
Note that the main web site is a live-authoring platform. There's a place to write and post into the general mix "articles" of any length and content - more permanent and formal than here in the forum, and less hassle than on static sites where someone else has to turn your ms into a web page.
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:27 am |
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RobertJames
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 am Posts: 375
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Good to "see" you too, Jim.
I love what you're doing here.
Keep up the great work!
Robert
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Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:44 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:24 pm |
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RobertJames
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 am Posts: 375
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Iirc, the Beards took in the kids briefly after Keith's death.
As for all the other info you've found, pass it along to my email address and I'll forward to Colin.
Mr. Mullins, if I haven't said it before, you're amazing in your ability to dig up all this stuff!
Robert
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Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:03 am |
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BillPatterson
Heinlein Biographer
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm Posts: 1024
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:29 pm |
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BillPatterson
Heinlein Biographer
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm Posts: 1024
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:31 pm |
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RobertJames
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 am Posts: 375
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Gas station and bar....no funny ideas about no drinking and driving back then
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:00 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:29 am |
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BillPatterson
Heinlein Biographer
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm Posts: 1024
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Arrgh! You and Robert have GOT to get together and get these things written up for the Journal.
I bet the watercress canape was a cream-cheese spread. What we now know as California cuisine was just getting started in the 1930's. (nowadays it would be more likely to be a variation of pesto) ISTR this is also about the time Erma Rombauer was putting together the first version of The Joy of Cooking (but she was very midwestern)
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:25 pm |
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BillPatterson
Heinlein Biographer
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm Posts: 1024
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Yo, Bill. I just put this material (crediting you) into an extended footnote in the Biography. It's a good thing (words I never thought Id see coming out of my fingers...) that the copyedit is happening now.
thanks very much!
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:22 pm |
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PeterScott
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:10 am Posts: 2236 Location: Pacific NorthWest
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Wait a minute.
Mrs. R.A. Heinlein???
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:56 pm |
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BillPatterson
Heinlein Biographer
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm Posts: 1024
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:04 am |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
The history of "Mrs." is one of the most peculiar stories in English and sociology.
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:28 am |
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PeterScott
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:10 am Posts: 2236 Location: Pacific NorthWest
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Oops... I was thrown by the fact that apparently the same magazine referred to her two different ways. But maybe "volume" here spans multiple issues.
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:34 am |
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audrey
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:11 pm Posts: 198
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Mrs. Leslyn Heinlein would have been incorrect.
In fact if she had used that even as a divorced woman it would have implied that she was openly admitting fault in the divorce. (per Emily Post in 1935)
How times have changed - last month a co-worker of mine was married, and after some thought she decided to take her husband's last name as her own. At least part of that decision was made based on the very long length a hyphenated version of both names would be. She said her husband was very surprised and touched that she would do such a thing!
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:50 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:43 am |
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BillPatterson
Heinlein Biographer
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm Posts: 1024
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:21 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
is the house that Leslyn lived in in 1968 (1974 S Argonaut, Stockton, CA - midway between Irene and Sanchez on the far side of the street). The tavern/gas station that Jules owned and operated was at 1735 Marengo. I think this lot (now empty) was at the SE corner of Charter (name changes to Marengo further west) and Fresno. From the house, go N to Charter, and SW to Fresno.
This info comes from City Directories scanned at Ancestry.com.
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Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:40 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
And apparently Leslyn used to sing in public:
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Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:40 pm |
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holmesiv
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:53 am Posts: 555
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:45 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:01 pm |
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RobertJames
Heinlein Nexus
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 am Posts: 375
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Bill M., you're amazing!
The singing would have been when Leslyn was about graduation age, or thereabouts, from high school -- 18 or 19, I forget.
Thank you for the great little tidbits.
R.
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Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:34 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Leslyn's birth .
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Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:46 pm |
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thinker
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 am Posts: 118 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
I've read that RAH and Leslyn had an open marriage. Most recently I read this in the Robert James bio on Leslyn in the Heinlein Journals. Does anyone have first hand knowledge this is correct? And what about during his marriage to Ginny? Somehow I don't think she would agree to that kind of lifestyle.
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:50 am |
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MichaelCassutt
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:01 pm Posts: 25 Location: Studio City CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:17 pm |
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thinker
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 am Posts: 118 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Thank you. Are the letters you're referring to in the archives?
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:39 pm |
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MichaelCassutt
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:01 pm Posts: 25 Location: Studio City CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:11 pm |
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thinker
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 am Posts: 118 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Thank you muchly. I enjoyed reading your accounting of your contacts and meetings with RAH and Ginny. Do you have anything else documenting your relations with RAH that you can share? Can you recommend any other available accountings from people who knew him or Ginny personally? I don't mean interviews because they are not normal day to day contact. Allen Steele's "At the feet of the Master" for example, but preferably with more personal information about RAH and Ginny. Cheers?
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Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:33 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:17 pm |
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MichaelCassutt
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:01 pm Posts: 25 Location: Studio City CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:39 am |
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thinker
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 am Posts: 118 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
I appreciate the responses from both of you. I realize, since so much time has passed that there isn't any sure way to know. I'm going to read the letters as soon as I can find out why the archives won't take my credit cards. I've bought stuff successfully 4 times before and now the transactions fail when I attempt payment. If I had Geo's email address I might could hurry this process along. I don't know how often he looks at the archives email.
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Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:40 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:14 pm |
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thinker
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 am Posts: 118 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:54 am |
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thinker
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 am Posts: 118 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:41 pm |
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thinker
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:51 am Posts: 118 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:20 pm |
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MichaelCassutt
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:01 pm Posts: 25 Location: Studio City CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:44 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:13 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:24 pm |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
I don't know if I'm more fascinated that newspapers included such minute social news in those days, or that months then had 38 days.
(Sorry, Bill, just needling you. Very good stuff. And I am amazed that such small social events got line listings in any modern era...)
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:36 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:28 am |
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DanHenderson
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:21 am Posts: 786 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
_________________ “Don’t believe everything you see on the Internet.” –Abraham Lincoln
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Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:10 am |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
_________________ "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.
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Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:30 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:13 pm |
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DanHenderson
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:21 am Posts: 786 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
_________________ “Don’t believe everything you see on the Internet.” –Abraham Lincoln
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:18 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Okay, I'll stay.
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:26 am |
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JamesGifford
PITA Bred
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm Posts: 2402 Location: The Quiet Earth
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
We all make typos - or typoes, or tighpoes, or what have you. It's hard to resist poking at one that makes silly sense in context. No diss intended.
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:55 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm |
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JusTin
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:09 pm Posts: 186
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:07 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
I'm not going anywhere. That was just banter that would have come across much better in person, verbally. They caught me out on two mis-transcriptions (TWO!!) which, in a more just world, would have slid by unnoticed.
Next time, I'll send stuff to Jim and Dan in advance to proofread, and then post it here.
(NOTE: not really, more banter . . . )
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Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:37 pm |
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jeepojiii
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:42 pm Posts: 128 Location: Northern VA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
_________________ OJ III
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Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:02 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
From a recent Reddit thread on "intellectual" jokes:
It's hard to explain puns to kleptomaniacs because they always take things literally.
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Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:46 pm |
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DanHenderson
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:21 am Posts: 786 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
I loved that thread! Also the one that was touted as Isaac Asimov's favorite pun, about the wealthy rancher who gave his sons a ranch of their own and they came to him for advice on what to name it. He suggested Focal Point, because that's where the sun's rays meet.
Think about it.
_________________ “Don’t believe everything you see on the Internet.” –Abraham Lincoln
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Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:06 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
From the Santa Ana (CA) Register, May 14 1935 p 9
SPEAKER TELLS OF SENATE AND ASSEMBLY BILLS
LAGUNA BEACH, May 14 – "Fascist Bills in Sacramento" was the subject of an address delivered recently at the Park avenue school building by Mrs. R. A. Heinlein, of Los Angeles, formerly a resident of Laguna. The address was given under the auspices of the Laguna Beach Epic club, William R. Tattersfield, club president, presiding. The speaker was introduced by James T. Garvin, chairman of the program committee.
Mrs. Heinlein enumerated a number of Senate and Assembly bills which, she said, may be employed in muzzling discussion of political questions or public issues. She invited particular attention to what she termed the Anti-Pacifist bill and to a measure under which any school board may deny the use of school buildings for the public discussion of "highly controversial" issues. The speaker also mentioned a bill under which libel suits are taken out of the hands of juries, the judge being the sole arbiter of facts and law in the premises.
Mrs. Heinlein urged that all public spirited citizens, regardless of political affiliations, make it a personal matter to investigate and acquaint themselves with these proposed measures, and then communicate their views to the state senators and assemblymen representing their respective districts.
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Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:51 am |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
An interesting on Leslyn.
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Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:32 pm |
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JusTin
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:09 pm Posts: 186
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
Is there really evidence of RAH as a "wife-swapper"? I don't remember reading details of that. Hints, maybe. Or I'm dense.
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:16 pm |
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BillMullins
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 545
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
The most explicit discussion I've seen is the letters by Grace Sang reprinted in the appendix of vol 2 of Patterson's biography. It gives the strong impression that Robert enjoyed an open marriage and that Leslyn wasn't completely happy with the situation, but figured fair is fair, and when she tried to do likewise, Robert interfered with her liaisons. They also seem to indicate that Ginny was throwing herself at Robert while he and Leslyn were still married, and that this was a contribution to their divorce.
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:25 pm |
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JusTin
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:09 pm Posts: 186
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:08 am |
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DanHenderson
Centennial Attendee
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:21 am Posts: 786 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Re: Leslyn in 1930
_________________ “Don’t believe everything you see on the Internet.” –Abraham Lincoln
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Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:56 am |
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